Interview
QFest St. Louis Interview: Gretchen Wylder – Star and Writer of THESE THEMS
The web series THESE THEMS is part of the 13th annual QFest St. Louis, a Cinema St. Louis event. Order a free ticket to this virtual screening HERE. THESE THEMS is free due to the generous underwriting of Cinema St. Louis’ sponsors. More information about QFest can be found HERE.
The queer comedy series THESE THEMS — whose co-writer and star, Gretchen Wylder, is a St. Louis native — dives headfirst into the NYC lesbian/GNC scene by following four main characters: Gretchen, a newly out, high-energy lesbian looking to make up for lost time; Vero, a nonbinary dog walker turned queer educator; Asher, a shy and private trans man who passes as cisgender and likes it that way; and Kevin, Gretchen’s gay best friend, who is simply looking for love. With its snappy dialogue and engaging performances, this eight-episode web series — by turns charming, empowering, and hilarious — features lots of mixed signals, some steamy and often amusingly awkward sexual encounters, a few secret crushes, and even a handful of musical numbers. Tracy E. Gilchrist, feminism editor of The Advocate, writes: “Playful, sexy, informative, and crucial, ‘These Thems’ shines a light on a panoply of underrepresented queer identities and changes the game for nonbinary visibility.” Check out the trailer for season one of THESE THEMS:
Gretchen Wylder, writer and star of THESE THEMS, took the time to talk to We Are Movie Geeks about her web series
Interview conducted by Tom Stockman June 10th 2020
Tom Stockman: I understand you are from St. Louis.
Gretchen Wylder: That is right.
TS: What part of town are you from?
GW: Chesterfield. How about you?
TS: I grew up in Kirkwood lived there until just last year when I moved to the city. Near the brewery now. I miss Kirkwood. When did you move away from St. Louis?
GW: I moved to Chicago in 2003 . I lived there for a while, then I lived in New York for nine years and I just recently moved to LA.
TS: I watched most of your web series THESE THEMS. I was having some connectivity issues and wasn’t able to watch it all the way through. The last thing I saw was you singing the song ‘Listen to Your Pussy’.
GW: Oh, you watched most of it then. There was only one more episode after that.
TS: I have never watched a web series before. How did you decide to turn this project into the form of a web series?
GW: It’s an 85 minute run time, so we could have done it as a feature film, but I always viewed this concept as a television show, so I wanted to make sort of a condensed version of that. I feel like each episode is a stand-alone, and that each episode encapsulates different experiences in these characters’ lives. It’s been cool because a lot of fans have shared different episodes with their coworkers or specific people that would like them. A lot of the fans of the show are straight folks, or allies or family members of people who may have recently come out as trans. Some fans sent the gender reveal episode to their friends to help them explain the experience of pronouns. This is as opposed to having them watch this 85-minute long film that’s a super queer movie.
TS: I get it. They’re like bite-size episodes! Is seven episodes typical for one season of a web series?
GW: I don’t think anything is typical of a web series!
TS: Were you interested in becoming a filmmaker when you were younger and living here in St. Louis?
GW: I was not. I was a huge musical theater nerd. I still am. I did do something at Stages in St. Louis, but honestly I wanted to do the whole Broadway trajectory. I got really close but being an actor is really hard, you get a lot of rejection. It got to the point where I was just really unhappy so I decided to start creating my own work which manifested into the show that you watched. And it became more involved and bigger than I had anticipated
TS: Are some of the stories in THESE THEMS autobiographical?
GW: I would say there are some similarities to my own life, especially in my character Gretchen’s trajectory, but maybe it’s a figment of my imagination that I put into the storylines.
TS: And you wrote all of these yourself, correct?
GW: I did, but I also shared my work with other queer people on the creative team and made sure that these stories were being told in an authentic way. Lots of check and balances and a few good joke pitches came my way too!
TS: Where did you get some of your ideas? Just hanging out with your friends that you’ve made in New York and LA?
GW: Yes. I came out 13 years ago. New York’s queer scene is just super unique and diverse and intersectional and that’s what I wanted to get across in the show. But yes, it was inspired by friendships that I have built and different experiences and molding those experiences into these characters. After I wrote it, we conducted four different table readings in New York City before we filmed. After each of those I did a bunch of a rewrites and checked in with friends in the community to make sure nothing felt wrong or off. Some people were really forward to me and I would tweak the script a little to better match some of their experiences. There was a lot of listening.
TS: Was there much improv or did your cast pretty much stick to the script?
GW: I’d say it’s about 90% scripted and maybe 10% improv. There’s some good improv moments that appear in that gender reveal episode and also in some of the awkward scenes between Asher and his boss, but the general feel of the show was already written. I feel lucky because all of the actors you see are my personal friends and since I’ve been an actor for so long, I knew who I wanted to work with. I always knew that I would choose people who are smart actors and I could trust if they do want to improv a bit.
TS: Let’s talk about your three costars in the show. Nick Park as Kevin doesn’t have any other credits.
GW: Yes, Nick and I met doing an off-Broadway show and this is his first on-camera acting role. It’s really my first big on screen acting role as well. I had done a couple of small things. Interestingly, all three characters had been cast with different actors originally. We had to push back the schedule due to extenuating circumstances. When that happened, we ended up losing the cast, which was crazy and everyone had to be recast. I had originally written the role of Kevin for a friend of mine named Kevin, but he was booked in a national tour and wasn’t able to finish the project. But I knew how talented Nick was and asked him to audition. He’s just so natural on screen.
TS: He’s funny. Talk about Shaan Dasani as Asher. I assume he is a transgender performer. Was it difficult to find a transgender actor for that role?
GW: Shaan is LA-based, as is Vico who plays Vero. But no, it really wasn’t very hard to find a trans actor. I think more and more of those people are realizing there are so many opportunities now and are starting to take classes and build up their skill sets. This role was hyper-specific in that character, as we say, skews on the binary side as male”. When you look at him, you don’t necessarily think he’s a person who is transgender, so that role was a bit tricky. I auditioned probably eight other guys for this role and Shaan gave such a authentic and unique performance. He’s so natural on camera that I chose him the second I saw his audition tape . It was totally how I pictured Asher and he really brought that character to life
TS: What about Vico Ortiz? Talk about them.
GW: What’s funny was that I had written a character named Veronica who goes by Vero but I ended up casting someone named Victoria who goes by Vico! Vico has the most credits of anyone. Vico has been on American Horror Story and Vida. He has a huge list of costarring credits. It was important for me to keep casting options open for every other character, but specifically wanted Vero to be a person of color. We already have such a limited view of non-binary representation in the media anyway, and every nonbinary character outside of THESE THEMS I’ve seen is white, that I can think of. . So it was important for me to get a different viewpoint of that experience.
TS: What is that always the plan for the title of the show; THESE THEMS?
GW: I did have a hard time picking a title but I felt the title brings attention to the fact that we have some gender-neutral teaching to do. But I’d say that was always really the title.
TS: You’re funny in the show too. Talk about your comedy background. I understand you attended Second City in Chicago? What was that like?
GW: It was a lot of straight white dudes. I took several classes there when I lived in Chicago but I really didn’t get my footing there. I got most of my training at the Upright Citizens Brigade in New York City I took all of their improv classes and sketch classes and character writing classes. I feel like I’ve learned much of my comedic timing from being on stage, so when I do musical theater, I like to put my own quirky spin on characters. But Upright Citizens Brigade really taught me how to write a joke and craft it so it comes off well.
TS: Who are some of your favorite female comedians of all time?
GW: Lucille Ball, definitely.
TS: You reminded me of Lucille Ball in THESE THEMS! There was one scene when you’re riding a bicycle down the streets of New York and you’re crying and I thought you were making such a Lucy face.
GW: Thanks. One of the reviews that we got said I was “A queer latter-day Lucille Ball”. I’m putting that on my tombstone! I’m also a huge fan of Issa Rae, the creator of Insecure. I love that she is able to create sincere heartfelt comedy that people can relate to through the black experience. I wanted to do the same thing with the queer community while making it accessible for everybody
TS: How has your show been received?
GW: People love it! We’ve gone to over a dozen film festivals and have won five awards so far. Everyone who finds the show on YouTube really loves it, but it’s upsetting right now because YouTube is being sued by I queer content creators for censorship. Since we have released the show, we have been demonetized, so now I am making zero dollars even though there are ads on there, which makes money for YouTube.
TS: But you were monetized at first?
GW: Yes we were but we have been demonetized, our thumbnails have been removed, and we have been tagged as pornography, Which is insane. They are being sued for censorship, but what YouTube is lazily saying is if you use the hashtag #Transgender, they assume that it is pornography. When I released the show on YouTube, I had hoped that it would go viral, but since YouTube has suppressed it in the algorithm, It is not showing up in ‘suggested videos’ so people truly have to seek it out to watch it.
TS: Have you been doing some writing for a season two?
GW: Yes, I have all sorts of ideas for season two But I don’t want to write a season two web series version right now because I am tired I am and I am broke from making this first season. Right now I am working on pitching it to networks to actually have a full TV show and using this as a proof of concept. I see future seasons getting bigger, with more characters.
TS: How much does it suck not being able to attend these film festivals, like Q Fest here in St. Louis, with the lockdown going on?
GW: It really sucks. We had an awesome early festival run starting around this time last year, so I feel very grateful that I was able to experience that. This is my first filmmaking project so it was a lot of firsts for me. But since the lockdown has started I have missed three major festivals. One in Seattle, one in Las Vegas, and then the one right there in my hometown.
TS: Right, so sorry. Q Fest is gotten a reputation as a really good gay and lesbian film festival Maybe next year you’ll be able to come back and show something then. Good luck with THESE THEMS and all of your other projects.
GW: Thank you.
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