WAMG Interview – Susan Orlean, Author of RIN TIN TIN: THE LIFE AND THE LEGEND

Interview conducted by Tom Stockman November 8th, 2011.

Rin Tin Tin: The Life and the Legend is Susan Orlean’s comprehensive and moving account of the famed German Shepherd’s journey from orphaned puppy to Hollywood superstar and pop culture icon. Orlean, a staff writer at The New Yorker, spent nearly ten years researching and reporting her most captivating book to date: the story of a dog who was born in 1918 and never died.

It begins on a battlefield in France during World War I, when a young American soldier, Lee Duncan, discovered a newborn German shepherd in the ruins of a bombed-out dog kennel. To Duncan, who came of age in an orphanage, the dog’s survival was a miracle. He saw something in Rin Tin Tin that he felt compelled to share with the world. Duncan brought Rinty home to California, where the dog’s athleticism and acting ability drew the attention of Warner Bros. Over the next ten years, Rinty starred in twenty-three blockbuster silent films that saved the studio from bankruptcy and made him the most famous dog in the world. At the height of his popularity, Rin Tin Tin was Hollywood’s number one box office star.

During the decades that followed, Rinty and his descendants rose and fell with the times, making a tumultuous journey from silent films to talkies, from black-and-white to color, from radio programs to one of the most popular television shows of the baby boom era, The Adventures of Rin-Tin-Tin. The canine hero’s legacy was cemented by Duncan and a small group of others – including Bert Leonard, the producer of the TV series, and Daphne Hereford, the owner of the current Rin Tin Tin – who have dedicated their lives to making sure the dog’s legend will never die.

Susan Orlean’s previous book, The Orchid Thief, was a profile of Florida orchid grower, breeder, and collector John Laroche. The book formed the basis of Charlie Kaufman’s script for the 2003 Spike Jonze film ADAPTATION. For that film, Orlean was portrayed by Meryl Streep (in an Oscar-nominated role) and was, in effect, made into a fictional character;

Susan Orlean will be in St. Louis as a guest of the St. Louis International Film Festival. The 1925 Rin Tin Tin film CLASH OF THE WOLVES will be screened Friday, November 18^th at Webster University’s Moore Auditorium with live piano accompaniment by pianist and composer Carl Pandolfi. Susan Orlean will introduce the film and discuss and sign the book, Rin Tin Tin: The Life and the Legend, which will be available for purchase through Left Bank Books. Ms Orlean was kind enough to take time to talk to We Are Movie Geeks.

We Are Movie Geeks: Have you been to St. Louis before?

Susan Orleans: Yes, on my last book tour.

WAMG: Do you enjoy book tours

SO: Oh yes

WAMG: Why Rin Tin Tin? Why did you decide to write book about this dog?

SO: Oh, I always loved the Rin Tin Tin show when I was little and I always loved German Shepherds. What really interested me was that I discovered that Rin Tin Tin had a whole life and a whole history, particularly the background in silent films, which was amazing and surprising to me since I had only known him as a ’50s TV show character

WAMG: Your previous book, The Orchid Thief was so successful and acclaimed (and adapted into the 2005 film ADAPTATION starring Meryl Streep as Susan Orleans) What did your publisher say when you approached them with the idea about writing a book about Rin Tin Tin?

SO: It took a little bit of explaining. I wanted them to know it wasn’t just a nostalgic book about TV but actually a very complex story about a character who had a very important presence in popular culture in about every format imaginable. As soon as I made it make sense, they were all very excited about it, which was great.

WAMG: I’m fifty and barely aware of Rin Tin Tin. Was your goal to make younger generations aware of this dog?

SO: That was a collateral goal. It wasn’t my main goal which was to tell people what I thought was an incredible story about people with fascinating lives. I knew that I was swimming upstream with people under a certain age, but that’s never bothered me. So I knew that would be a nice outcome but it wasn’t my goal.

WAMG: Can you talk about Lee Duncan and how he discovered Rin Tin Tin?

SO: Lee Duncan was a young man who fought in the First World War. He had grown up in some pretty harsh circumstances and was very attached to animals. When he was in France during the war, he had been sent to inspect a battlefield that had just been taken back by the allies. When he was there, there was basically nothing left but he saw a building that had obviously been hit by artillery. He went inside and it was filled with the bodies of dogs that had been killed. He heard a sound at the back of the kennel, made his way back there and found a female who had just given birth to five puppies. So he collected them and brought them out of the kennel and back to his barracks. He kept two of them and brought them back to the United States.

WAMG: Did he name the dog Rin Tin Tin and how did he come up with that name?

SO: Yes, he did give him that name. There was a folk story in WWI about a boy and a girl who were the only survivors of a bombing in a Paris railway station. They were called Rin Tin Tin and Annette and both dolls representing the boy and girl were used as good luck charms by the GIs in the war so when Duncan found the puppies , the first thing that occurred to him were that they were like a good luck charm so named them Rin Tin Tin and Annette.

WAMG: So Duncan brought Rin Tin Tin to Hollywood and he became the number one movie star. How much was Rin Tin Tin earning and who really got the money?

SO: They each got paid but everything that went to Rin Tin Tin went into Lee Duncan’s hands but they were paid separately. In terms of today’s dollars, they were earning millions of dollars. Rin Tin Tin was paid five or six times as much as the human stars.

WAMG: Did Rin Tin Tin live an extravagant lifestyle? Do he eat steak and gourmet dog food?

SO: Actually, there was no commercial dog food at that time. He was comfortable but the rumors of him eating out of a silver bowl and having a diamond collar aren’t true. There’s a lot of Hollywood nonsense about how he lived but they certainly made sure he was very well cared for and comfortable. But a dog is a dog and he probably wouldn’t have cared if he was eating out of a silver bowl or off the floor.

WAMG: I saw on ebay an autographed photo of Rin Tin Tin sold for $150. Was that signed by Duncan?

SO: Yes, those were all signed by Duncan. These were the publicity photos that were circulated.

WAMG: The original Rin Tin Tin starred in 27 film. Are many of those silent films lost?

SO: Most of them are lost. It’s hard to believe but out of the 27 films the original Rin Tin Tin starred, there are only about six left.

WAMG: Have you seen all of those?

SO: Yes, and of course I fantasize about seeing the other ones but they are lost.

WAMG: Sometime films that are thought to be lost end up discovered so you never know.

SO: Yes, they found two in the not so distant past. I think by accident they find them or a private collector might have one and might not realize it’s the only one and they can make it available. These days it’s easy to transfer to digital so people can see it, but I don’t think they’ve found a lost RIN TIN TIN film in a while.

WAMG: The film that we’re screening next weekend here at the St. Louis International Film Festival is CLASH OF THE WOLVES. Is that one of the better Rin Tin Tin movies? Can you tell me a little about that film?

SO: I really love it. I think its really great. The plot is very coherent. You see Rin Tin Tin doing what made him so popular. Some kind of dramatic, athletic feats, some notable performances with some great acting. It’s a great example of what made him so popular. Plus it’s a restored print so it looks really nice.

WAMG: I’ll be there. I’m really looking forward to it.

SO: Great. What I don’t know is if it will be accompanied by live music or not. In some of the venues we’ve shown it with live music and it’s just so cool.

WAMG: Yes it is here, right in the program. Live piano accompaniment by Carl Pandolfi.

SO: Oh that’s fantastic!

WAMG: Did Rin Tin Tin make the transition to talkies? Were some of these sound films?

SO: He did make the transition. His contract with Warner Brothers was terminated when they shifted to talkies. They were unsure how he would transition. Then Duncan got a contract with Mascot Pictures. They were the great makers of the great serial films, and RIN TIN TIN was  a big hit in that format. And then he did make talkies between that time and before the TV show.

WAMG: And there was a radio show too?

SO: Yes, there was a radio show. People always laugh when I say it, but there was.

WAMG: That was after the original Rin Tin Tin had died. Was Duncan still controlling Rin Tin Tin at the time?

SO: Yes, he controlled him exclusively until he (Duncan) died in 1960 and he was very involved in the radio show as the person in charge of Rin Tin Tin. They usually used a voice-over actor to the barking and the noises. Occasionally they would have Rin Tin Tin do it, but more often they used a human voice.

WAMG: Where is Rin Tin Tin buried?

SO: The original Rin Tin Tin is buried in Paris.

WAMG: Have you seen his grave?

SO: Yes, and I write about going to the grave in the book.

WAMG: Lee Duncan died in 1960. Did he leave behind a lot of documents that you were able to use for research?

SO: Yes, he left a great deal of material that came very close to being thrown out, then at the last minute, somebody found it and decided that this was too valuable to throw away and it ended up in a museum in Riverside California where he was living. I feel very lucky.

WAMG: Bert Leonard revived Rin Tin Tin in the ’50s for the TV show. Can you talk about him?

SO: At the time he and Lee Duncan met, he was a Hollywood producer who wanted some of his own projects. He met Lee and even though he was not a dog person and they had very little in common on the surface, they had an immediate connection, and Bert came up with the idea that became the basis for the TV show. They just bonded. I think each of them found in the other an emotional connection that hadn’t found elsewhere in their lives. Lee never had a son and Bert never had a father, and Lee really wanted a protégé so here was this young man he felt very connected to. Bert fell in love with the idea of a show and the show became a huge success and basically changed his life from a struggling guy in Hollywood to the hottest producer in town.

WAMG: Were you able to talk to Bert Leonard?

SO: He died while I was working on that book. I did not get to talk to him but I had access to a huge amount of material including a two hours of interviews that a friend of his had recorded that were fantastic. It was essentially the interview I would have done with him so I felt like I was, in a sense, able to communicate with him much as I wish I had talked to him in real life.

WAMG: Was the character of Rusty in the movies?

SO: No, just the TV show.

WAMG: Did you talk to Lee Aaker who played Rusty on the Rin Tin Tin TV show?

SO: No, he’s a real loner. I tried to reach him but he didn’t want to do interviews so I was not able to talk to him.

WAMG: What’s next for Susan Orleans?

SO: Right now just the book tour and catching my breath. I don’t have any other big projects scheduled right now.

WAMG: Good luck with Rin Tin Tin: The Life and the Legend and we’ll see you next Friday, November 18^th at 7pm here for the St. Louis International Film Festival.

SO: I’m looking forward to the event. Nice talking to you.