Posted by Scott in Director, Discuss, Featured Articles | 27 comments
Discuss: Quentin Tarantino and Kevin Smith… Most overrated directors?
Checking my RSS earlier I saw Rope of Silicon begging the question for “Who is the most overrated Director” and the top 3 choices were Quentin Tarantino, M Night Shyamalan and Kevin Smith after doing some research on the Internet.This is absolutely mind boggling, how could anyone consider Tarantino or Smith overrated? Not understanding the appeal of their movies is not the same thing as being overrated.
First off, M Night was probably overrated at one point in his life, but I only know of a couple of people that even rate him as a top director now, so he shouldn’t even be hanging out with the dudes mentioned around him.
Kevin Smith and Quentin Tarantino are a couple of names you dont take in vain like that, especially on our site and lets talk about why.
First Kevin Smith. His first time out as a writer/director he made a movie with $27,500 that has become one of the biggest cult classics of our generation. He was adorned by EVERYONE, including Miramax, and the Wiensteins. The movie got picked up, hit a few screens and grossed $3.15 million! He also has one of the most hardcore fan bases of any director I know of.
Kevin might be famous for having a bunch of crude humor, but there is always some type of underlying tones that you have to seek out and once you find them its easy to see why he is such a huge indie icon.
Then you have Quentin Tarantino who has given us some of the greatest action/exploitation films of recent memory. Not only does he write all his own stuff, he directs it, and usually does the soundtrack as well. Tarantino is responsible for bringing some incredible Martial Arts films over to the US with major distribution deals and the tagline of “Quentin Tarantino Presents”. The guy does it all, and everything he touches typically turns to gold(Death Proof was kick ass, I don’t care what Ebert thought of it).
So what do you guys think? Do you think they are overrated directors? Who would you put on the list?
Oliver Stone and Brian DePalma are two of my top picks for most over-rated directors. As for Tarantino and Smith, these guys can’t even see the list they’re so far from being on it. Whoever suggested that they’re “over-rated” needs to have their head examined! (Actually, its their opinion, which is cool… but still?)
I do think M Night is still relevant, even though his last two films were complete garbage. I have faith, but the idea of him doing an ‘Avatar’ adaptation doesn’t help. As a director, I’ve never really thought Kevin Smith was anything great and wonderful. However, the guy is one helluva great writer. Tarantino, on the other hand, can write and shoot, and he’s the furthest thing from being “overrated.” Lately, I’d have to agree with Travis and say Oliver Stone is very overrated. DePalma is growing less and less relevant, so I’m not sure he can be considered overrated. Ron Howard is pretty overrated, I think. Also Alejandro Inarritu (‘Babel’).
Eww… I can totally back Travis up on his nomination of DePalma.
Actually, DePalma and Shyamalan have very similar careers: Both started out on the indie scene making personal projects no one gave a shit about, then struck gold with a oscar-nominated horror picture, then made more shit that the general public cared less and less for.
Tarantino is a, uh, difficult subject. I think he’s a good director, but mostly in that he’s “The Thing” of directors, an assimilation. His flashiest directorial projects are the ones where he’s paying homage/outright aping the films he so clearly loves. Is it no coincidence, then, that I think his most interesting projects are “Jackie Brown” and “Death Proof?” They both have a focus and originality that is bolstered by his omniscient knowledge of film, as opposed to being a mash-up of characters and situations (and music) from other films. He’s an entertainer, for sure, but he’s no revelation. As much as people love the ever living shit out of Pulp Fiction, well, I still think we have yet to see Tarantino’s true masterpiece.
Nick, I would agree with you about Tarantino’s “homage” films if there was no originality to be found in those films. His originality comes from what he does with the pieces he picks up from other films. The sum of the parts are what makes Tarantino’s films both incredibly entertaining and mind-blowing. Even the best chefs create great dishes out of other ingredients they’ve picked up along the way.
As for Pulp Fiction, I could be completely missing a number of things, but I think it lifts from other films far less than Jackie Brown and Death Proof. I can understand the issues some people have with Kill Bill, particularly Vol.1. There are a number of Asian films that he lifted for that film, but the whole film is still excellent.
I defiantly agree that Oliver Stone is over rated. He seems to thrive more on shock value then actually making a good movie. I have never walked away from one of his movies feeling amazed.
What about Clint Eastwood? It seems that everything he touches is an automatic nomination for an Oscar. I think it’s all political. I liked “Mystic River”, but “Flags of Our Fathers” and “Letters from Iwo Jima” just bored the hell out of me. Also “Million Dollar Baby” did nothing for me. It was so depressing. I understand Hilary Swank’s Oscar win, but the film as a whole didn’t deserve it. I haven’t seen the “Changeling”, but there is already Oscar buzz about it. Whatever he does is golden no matter how good or bad it is because he is a cardholding member of the old boys club.
I thought Stone’s ‘Alexander’ was one of the worst films ever made. I know lots of people loved ‘Scarface’ but I think the only film DePalma even got close to calling a masterpiece was ‘The Untouchables’. I disagree about Eastwood. I’m not going to sit here and say he’s God’s gift to filmmaking but I typically enjoy his films. ‘Mystic River’ was good but so damn depressing. I really liked ‘Million Dollar Baby’ but I think most who don’t were turned off by the euthanasia element in the second half, which even I felt was overdone a bit, but still liked the film a lot. This may sound odd, but I enjoyed ‘Letters From Iwo Jima’ much more than ‘Flags of Our Fathers’. I felt it was a much more powerful film. If that makes me anti-patriotic then whatever… its just how I felt.
Tarantino makes the film equivalent of a really nice mix tape. It takes a certain originality in pairing a Godard homage and a nod to Saturday Night Fever in a single scene, and you hit the nail on the head, his originality is in how he shuffles and exploits his influences, and he is very good at it. The sum of the parts is so great because they are great moments lifted from other films. Pulp Fiction is filled with dozens and dozens of references, like Kill Bill, but less obvious about it. He is the best example of everything great and terrible in postmodernist cinema.
Don’t get me wrong, everyone has their heroes. Just look at any John Carpenter film and you are bound to find the influence of Howard Hawkes. The big difference is Carpenter utilizes his influences to make something new, Tarantino just restages stuff he likes within a framework palatable to western audiences. I’m not saying it’s bad, or that I don’t enjoy it myself, but there is a difference. It’s akin to a Youtube video, wherein someone edits together a collage of their favorite films, puts some music over it, and then labels it as their own creation. And, in a way, it is theirs, just as Tarantino can lay claim to his creations.
It is a kind of creativity that recognizes creativity and then saps from it. Like how Madonna makes music.
And, sure, there is that argument that Shakespeare told all the original stories, and we are all just cribbing from him, and that is true for the most part, we are. Except that we are now cribbing from people, who cribbed from people, who cribbed from Shakespeare.
Travis, it doesn’t sound odd at all. I really didn’t care for ‘Flags of Our Fathers’. I felt it drilled it’s message into you time and time again relentlessly. ‘Letters From Iwo Jima’ is a really powerful, epic war film.
I have to jump on the Stone/Shyamalan ticket. Maybe they were both in the same car when they hit the proverbial “Wall”. M. Night going along great until he puts out “chick in a pool” and from then on we get garbage. Stone is the same way. Platoon, Wall Street and then he serves up Alexander. They both need to take a step back and look at what is coming from the new group of directors and regain their focus!
While I don’t think they are overrated – I know why some have that opinion or at least some could get that impression.
It’s called fanboi-ism. Smith and Terintino are the Blizzard / Diablo 2’s of directors. ( no correlation to customer service / corperate overlords ) By all accounts thier work is brilliant and affects millions, but they incite a following and furvor for anything they shellout that the stuff that turns out to be crap-ish or not really up to par with previous work is still defended wit tooth, nail, and internet-forum-epeen for the sole reason of who it’s from. A loss of objectivity….blind faith / following…Tarintio Zealot ?
I think a lot of directors have this in some manner or another — I think due to the cult/college demographic puts these two into a category of thier own when it comes to ‘ following ‘.
Odds are there many that don’t like them for the sole reason of how popular they are in that regard and spout terms like ‘ overrated ‘. These are also the people that don’t really get the motive behind ‘ so silly/bad/over-the-top they’re awesome ‘ movies or how people enjoy them. ( shoot-em up anyone ? ) Or, they come from a background or lifestyle that they simply can’t connect with the content and therefore don’t understand the craze.
As for my pick – I don’t have one. Calling anything overrated is overrated. Every director lets us down here and there for a long list or reasons. Anymore, it’s hard to tell just how much control the director have vs. the studios and pointing the finger at who dissapointed us has become a muddy venture. ( generic explanation of this because its lunch time )
I like Smith but his films have very little mainstream appeal. As for Tarnatino- YES he is overrated to a point. His KILL BILL movies did nothing for me and he’s obsessed with Rape as its a theme in all his films. Pulp Fiction was terrific but the Ving Rhames rape scene was from the mind of one really disturbed guy. Can you imagine the senior citizen crowd that wondered into the film and caught that! The guys got talent but he also has a fairy sick mind!
What’s a “fairy sick mind”?
He either meant “very” or “fairly”. Either way, Epic Fail!
I’m also perplexed as to how you “wonder” into a film.
By “fairy sick mind” he must of meant genius.
If the seniors are mistaking the movies for a bingo hall, its time to fire the bus driver. They can’t just wonder in..you have to shell out 8-10 dollars to get in the door. And don’t even throw the “they didn’t know what it was about” card..in this day of overmarketing. If you don’t see at least a dozen different trailers for flicks at the theater it’s time to change caves. The senior crowd may have liked the film, it’s not porn its a classic film. If you are comparing Tarantino’s work to porn you need to re-rent all of his films and watch them this time!
Speaking of the “R-word”… which scene in ‘Reservoir Dogs’ featured the forceful act of unconsentual sex? I mean, I’ve only seen this film at least 8-10 times… but, maybe I fell asleep at the very same moment every time… hmm?
Travis if you fell asleep watching Reservoir Dogs we will have to start calling you Charles Junior! hahahahaha. My dvd doesn’t have that scene either, maybe there is a super secret directors cut that we don’t know about…NOT!
Maybe it’s time for a double feature. I suggest ‘Happiness’ and ‘Irreversible.’
Bring the kids.
My intend was to make a comment on your thread, not to start a pissing match with you guys. I did misspell a word or two and for that I apologize, but I think you got my point. The word was fairly and the senior crowd observation was not to be taken seriously. My statement is just an opinion. That’s all! I look forward to reading your site.
All the best
Chuck
Chuck, its cool man. We’re just playing around. We get carried away sometimes. We appreciate you reading the site and for commenting on our posts.
It’s all good Chuck…We are just messing with you. Keep reading and posting and don’t sweat the spelling I mis-spell words all the time..It really sucks when the word is wrong and spell check misses it! It’s all good fun!
I’m going to have to disagree with you here, Kevin Smith and Quentin Tarantino are both overrated. Smith has made three movies that I thought were funny, Dogma, and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, and Clerks of those I would only consider Dogma and Clerks good, Jay and Bob was just funny. Mallrats was okay at best, Chasing Amy is so boring, Jersey Girl was horrible, Clerks 2 was pretty funny in spots, but still relied on mostly crude humor, and a pretty boring romance. Don’t get me wrong though, I still think Kevin Smith is a really funny guy, watching his “A Night with Kevin Smith” speeches you realize how smart and funny the guy is, but his movies are hit or miss to me.
Tarantino on the other hand, I hate as a filmmaker and as a person. Every time he’s on an interview he just comes off as someone who is barely literate, and is incredibly self-absorbed (he has to make a cameo in practically every movie he makes). I understand why people like his movies, usually plenty of action, easy to understand dialogue, lots of blood, cussing, pop-culture references thrown around. The writer of this article says that he brings over fantastic martial arts movies, but do you really think that films like “The Protector” wouldn’t have made it over? He needs to stop showing his love of feet, every movie he makes has an incredibly long shot of people’s feet, We get it Quentin, you have a foot fetish. Also he has these ridiculously long monologues, that when you actually listen to have no real meaning, and can usually be summed up by the final sentence in the monologue.
You dont like him because he makes a cameo in all of his movies, has a foot fetish and uses long dialog?
Look at Ong Bak, probably a much better film than The Protector, and still really hard to find in the US, especially at stores like blockbuster and small chains. However you can find the protector anywhere and everywhere. Thats a prime example of Tarantino pushing movies to wider audiences.
Regardless of your opinions of his films, I think you’d be hard pressed to find many people in the industry that do not feel Tarantino is a true modern master of dialogue. And about the cameos… if putting yourself in every one of your films makes you a lousy filmmaker, then what do you have to say about Alfred Hitchcock?
I enjoyed watching an interview with Abbas Kiarostami regarding his time at Cannes with L’il Quentin.
He was very gracious but damned with faint praise and I take the opinion of the director of “Taste of Cherry” and “The Wind Will Carry Us” seriously. He’s on a level of originality and creativity that L’il Quentin hasn’t discovered.
“Reservoir Dogs” is deadly boring. I’m an adult and have gotten over the “wow that’s awesome” reaction to hearing a couple hundred “F” bombs. It takes an hour in that film for anything mildly interesting (the cop torture) to happen. And even then you have the problematic quality of L’il Quentin’s violence, “Oh, was I supposed to react to that”? It’s sterile.
Then you have his signature bathroom bits and a few bits about black women and it’s all wrapped in a standard package with sterile camera work.
The worst aspect of L’il Quentin is his interviews where he goes on about his latest conception as if he has something to say to anyone but twenty something bored white kids.
Bored white kids. That’s American films target audience and L’il Quentin really milks it.
Oh, naming his film company after a Godard film that is quantums beyond L’il Quentins understanding of pop culture gives you insight into this very insecure child.
Is he gay or just asexual. I’m curious. Mr. White and Mr. Orange were ready to hump for some reason at the end. Most interesting scene in a bad film.
L’il Quentin’s cameos are also interesting.
His line in “Reservoir Dogs” , “Now, where the F*** was I” showed an abysmal lack of timing and nuance. Problems that spill over to his films.
I saw a clip from his latest where he was threatening someone with a gun and it was quite sad. You could pass it off as L’il Quentin lampooning “B” movie acting and I’m sure his fans will see that as his special genius in the scene but no, he was serious.
That was the little wimp trying to act butch and a pathetic piece of acting it was.
But the bored white kids really thought it was outstanding.
Any of you pundits seen anything not made by an American in the last 15 years or do you stick to the dregs of film making. Tarantino is a stiff.